Wednesday, January 31, 2024

Atheist Answers to Religious Arguments

1.) Pascal's Wager: "If you're wrong, you'll go to hell. If I'm wrong, nothing will happen."

That's not how beliefs work. I genuinely don't think there's a god. I can't just pretend I do just in case something bad would happen to me otherwise. That would be lying, and if there was a god that existed in the way you describe, they would be able to tell that I was lying so it wouldn't make sense to go through the motions when I didn't actually believe. Also, many religions that contradict each other could use this argument. If you picked the wrong religion, by the logic of this argument, you wouldn't be any better off than Atheists.

If I'm wrong, nothing will happen because no god would ever punish someone for not being convinced of their existence. Even if there was a god like that, they would be an unethical god and should never be worshipped. It's not ok to punish someone for not believing in you and reward someone simply for believing in you. If you're wrong however, you've just spent your life being manipulated by an abusive and oppressive power structure instead of figuring out who you really are and what you would really believe in had you not been told so many lies. You may have wasted lots of time and money giving to the church and reading your religion's holy book or listening to preachers, or even going on missions to try to convert others. You may have spent lots of time feeling guilt because of the things your religion teaches you and stress from that guilt. If you're right, you've gained nothing because no god would ever reward someone simply for believing in them.


2.) "You're going to hell and it's all your fault for not choosing god."

Beliefs aren't things that you can choose. You can learn and become more educated and potentially change your beliefs with time, but you can't choose them like choosing a type of candy. Either you believe in something or you don't. I can't believe in a god no matter how hard I try because I'm genuinely convinced they don't exist. If they did exist and wanted to punish me for not being convinced of their existence, I would question why you worship such an unethical god that they would do something so horrible.


3.) "If you don't believe in heaven or hell, what do you think happens when we die?"

I think when we die, it's the same as before we are alive...as in, we don't exist anymore. And I think that makes this one life we have that much more precious and something to be cherished instead of taken for granted. I want to do as much good as I can in the short time I have.


4.) "If you don't think a god created us with a specific purpose, what do you think the point of life is?"

I think the point of life is to live it, to cherish it, and to do as much good that we can while we're here. To connect with our loved ones, engage in our hobbies and things that give us joy, watch younger generations grow up and gain independent lives, teach others what we know and learn from others too, and to keep growing as people. To form communities where we serve others and are served by others so that we can all survive and thrive. There doesn't have to be a specific being creating us with a specific purpose in life in order for us to live life to its fullest. We may not know all the answers but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy life and be good to each other.


5.) Intelligent Design/Complexity and "Because the world is so beautiful"

Intelligence, complexity, and beauty are in the eye of the beholder. They are opinions. Just because something seems intelligent or beautiful to you, doesn't mean it is. We all have things we view as incredibly beautiful, awe inspiring, or intelligent, but there are points where we disagree too. Even if we assume it is, just because something is intelligent or beautiful doesn't mean a god created it. Intelligence and beauty were created and changed with evolution. The world used to not even have the things many of us find intelligent or beautiful on it, such as plants and animals, including us.

Also, many of the things religious people assume are perfect and complex actually have many many flaws, such as the human body having very vulnerable important parts like the testicles exposed and easily able to be harmed. That is not an intelligent design at all. And even if we assume a god created something, that doesn't mean the god *you* believe in created it, as opposed to the thousands of gods humans have believed in that you don't believe in.


6.) "There has to be a higher power/something bigger than us"

This doesn't have to be a god. I think the universe is that for us. There's so much going on all around our planet, and I think that's amazing. So many solar systems we haven't even begun to explore and so much expansion. Even our own ecosystem and animal kingdom are vast and amazing. Knowing that life started so many years before our species started existing is humbling. There is more to life than just us.


7.) God of the gaps: "I can't imagine it could have been anything else but a god, so it must have been a god."

It's better to admit that you don't know something than to assume the answer. There is a lot of awe and wonder in being curious and looking for the answer. It helps no one to pretend you already know when you don't and stop that curiosity. Just because you can't imagine what else could have created the universe but a god does not mean that a god created the universe. You just have to keep wondering and be ok with not knowing. 


8.) "Everything needs a creator/the fact that we exist and everything around us exists is evidence of a god"

Atheists aren't saying a creator didn't create the universe, we're saying there's no evidence for a creator being a *being*. A creator could be anything, including events, such as the Big Bang or a potential event that created the Big Bang. Likewise, a creator of humans and other animals could be biological processes, such as evolution.


9.) "You just believe everything came from nothing."

No, and in fact that always sounded like what religious people believe to me (the idea that a god created everything out of nothing and/or was created out of nothing themselves). Atheists generally believe that there was something that created the universe but we don't exactly know what. That the big bang most likely created the expanse of the universe but we don't know for sure what came before the big bang or why this happened.

To sum it up, the big bang is when matter and energy were condensed a lot and then started expanding out at a rapid pace, called cosmic inflation. Some hypotheses are that some universes give way to other universes, or that universes constantly collapse and then expand again. The great thing about science is that we are forever learning and piecing things together with new information. I encourage everyone who is curious to delve into the subjects of the big bang, cosmic inflation, and scientific ideas about what created the universe, as well as how evolution works.


10.) "A god has to exist because it's outside of this realm/science"

That's just a shystery car salesman technique used to manipulate people into things. You could say that about anything, including other gods you don't believe in. For example, "Thor is real, and you can't say he isn't because he exists outside of the laws of science!" It also doesn't make sense to assume that someone can create things outside of the laws they work in. You couldn't create something that didn't abide by the laws of science, nor could you not abide by the laws of science yourself while having created something that did, for example.


11.) "If god doesn't exist, objective morality doesn't exist."

That's not true. Objective morality comes from having empathy, a conscience, and the ability to reason, which come from the brain and evolution. For example, you could say what is unethical is unethical even if someone claims it's not because empathy allows us to step inside of someone's shoes and know that we wouldn't want something to happen to us and therefore we shouldn't do it to others. The person who claims it is not unethical just isn't practicing empathy in that moment.

Also, a god can change their mind as they wish or be said to believe different things depending on the religion. Different gods can say different things about what is or isn't moral. So if you're following what a god says about morality, it is entirely subjective to a god's will. If a god were real and told people different things at different times, the morals would change, but that's not objectivity. If the bible had been written to say that homophobia is a sin, the same christians who are homophobic now would have been raised to believe that homophobia is immoral.


12.) "You don't have any morals."

Yes we do. Atheists have a tendency to care about morals a lot. Also, the morals from the Bible came from the morals of the communities that were around at the time, and are basic morals that the average person believes in. For instance, we too believe in "thou shall not kill" and "love thy neighbor." Also, this argument is counter-intuitive to the stereotype that Atheists are just a bunch of "woke people", given that "woke people" are known to care about morals a lot.


13.) "If you don't believe in a god, why don't you go around raping and killing everyone?" and "Where do your morals come from?"

Because morals don't come from doing something because someone else told you to. They come from empathy/having a conscience/the ability to reason. I have zero desire to go around raping or killing anyone. I don't need a god, religion, or prophet to tell me what to do or to tell me that these things are wrong. I am perfectly capable of understanding that all on my own.

Also, it scares Atheists for you to imply that the only thing stopping you from raping and killing us is a belief in a god. You too should have the ability to understand why those things are wrong outside of a god. You should have the ability to understand that if your god, prophet, religion, or holy text said that you should go around raping and killing everyone, that would be wrong and you shouldn't do those things. But hopefully you do and haven't just thought it through. It's not morality if you do good things to get rewarded and avoid bad things to avoid being punished. Morality is about doing good things because they are good and you want to help others, and avoiding bad things because they are bad and you don't want to hurt others.


14.) "You just want to sin"

No. I don't believe sinning is a thing, and I don't want to do many of the things you call sins. I believe in being an ethical person. You can want to sin and believe in a god, and not want to do bad things and not believe in a god. Also, this is counter-intuitive to the idea that everyone is a sinner. Christians and other religious folks do what you call "sinning" all the time, so why say this only about Atheists not believing in a god?


15.) "You just hate god."

No. I don't believe in any god. It makes no sense to assume that people just hate a character they don't believe in because you're that afraid of admitting that not everyone is convinced of their existence. I get that it's hard to be so used to the idea of a god that you can't fathom someone genuinely not believing in them, but it's true, we genuinely don't believe in your god for the same reasons you genuinely don't believe in the thousands of other gods that people have believed in.


16.) "It says so in the bible"

Assuming that things written in a book are automatically true simply because it says so in the book is circular logic and makes no sense. Especially if you try to use some historical events that happen to be written down in said book for justification as to why everything in the book is true when it's clear that the authors were just adding in things they were experiencing or knew about and used them as inspiration to create fantastical stories like all storybook writers do. This would be like assuming that The Hunger Games is true because it's all written down in The Hunger Games, and then looking at current societal collapse to say that that's evidence that we should abide by everything else in it.


17.) "You just have to read the bible in context."

No one can ever agree on what the context is or what the bible is really trying to say. I've watched christians constantly disagree with each other on what the bible is saying for years. There are many, many contradictions in the bible. You can see some of them here: https://www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ If it takes this much work to understand a piece of writing, it's not worth it to read or take seriously. Not to mention that the bible was written by humans hundreds of years after the things in it supposedly went down and retranslated over and over again. Naturally, a lot would have been lost in translation, which means it shouldn't be taken seriously. At most it should be viewed as a book of stories, not something to live by.


18.) "Well if you really don't believe in hell or a god or the bible, why do you talk about these things/why do you care if I say you'll burn in hell?"

Because I genuinely believe that these things are used to dominate and control people, and as you folks say, I think you deserve to be saved. Just because I don't believe there's even a hell for me to go to doesn't mean I think it's fine to sit back and watch children get threatened with hell so that they will do what people say, or that it's fine if vulnerable people are told that the way to save themselves is to buy into what a religion is selling. I think being a good person means speaking out on what we see as wrong. I see coercing people into religion as wrong.


19.) "If people feel comforted by the idea of a god and need religion to get by in life when things are hard, what's the harm in that?"

I think there are healthier ways to do that. The reason religion is called "the opium of the people" is because it is something that spreads like an addiction when people are down and is used to numb people. I think religion preys on the vulnerable by using people's hard life circumstances (such as addiction, homelessness, prison sentences, breakups, grief, trauma etc. or even just being young and naive) to convince them that things that aren't true actually are, because that's how religion survives. Without this method of coercion, religion could never exist in the modern age.

Because of that, it is an oppressive power structure. This is why every religious conversion story starts with someone talking about how hard their life was but then they found christ/religion. I believe these people deserve better than to be used by the religious hierarchy as tools to spread what they are trying to sell to the masses. No one deserves to be exploited like that. It's also a band-aid solution that doesn't get to the root of their problems. Often they need actual therapy, not religion.


20.) "I had a religious experience/witnessed a miracle/witnessed something paranormal"

When it comes to feeling a sense of awe in a moment and thinking of it as a religious experience, that doesn't mean that there is a god. It is part of being a human and an animal to have moments of stillness or a sense of mind-blowing awe or comfort. People tend to experience this when listening to music, because music is good at healing and making people feel great in the moment. This is why people at christian music concerts may think they feel a god's presence. It's just how the human brain reacts to music. The same goes for worship services. Sometimes it's people looking for answers, not knowing what the answers are but being tired of searching, and settling for the idea of a god and feeling good about it because of the ease of thinking you found an answer.

There are lots of coincidences that have happened in the world. For instance, someone may have become conscious after falling unconscious and an EMT did chest compressions on them, even after someone said "Please God save them". Someone may have been held up at gunpoint and then the person got startled by something and ran away. Good things happening, and things that happen coincidentally, are not evidence of a god.

A lot of times the brain plays tricks on us. We think we hear things or see things that aren't there, or mishear things and our brains fill in the gaps. There are also times where technology is turned on or off by electricity spurts. There are sound waves that can sound eerie. There are also times where we hallucinate because we are tired, dehydrated, hungry, on medication, or stressed out. None of these things mean there is anything paranormal happening.

There are times where people's consciences and gut feelings tell them to do something, and they attribute that to a god. One may feel like their partner cheated on them because they acted nervous and suspicious, and they may say "God told me something was wrong, so I dug deeper and found evidence he was cheating." This doesn't mean there is a god. This is another basic human feeling. 


21.) "Religious people are trying to proselytize to you to save you because we genuinely believe your soul is in danger/you are going to hell"

The same goes for Atheists, in a sense. We genuinely believe you are being harmed by religion and need to be saved from it. We believe it is an exploitative industry that is using you as a pawn to gain money and gain cult followers to blindly do what it says. The difference is that there is a huge double standard here, because there is a lot more hatred toward Atheists, to the point where we essentially aren't allowed to proselytize to people.

If we try to save you, we will get stopped at best and hate crimed at worst. We could be killed for it, lose our jobs for it, go to jail for it in certain countries etc. In fact a lot of Atheists feel like they have to be closeted because it is unsafe to be an out Atheist. So if you believe it is ok for a religious person to proselytize on the basis that they are trying to genuinely save our souls, you should be equally ok with Atheists trying to proselytize to religious people because we are genuinely trying to save you from being harmed by religion.


22.) "If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?"/"Evolution can't be true because my mother wasn't a monkey."

Evolution isn't saying that your mother was a monkey or that we came from monkeys. It's saying that several hundred thousand years ago (or tens of thousands of generations ago), there was another species that was very similar to our own that essentially birthed ours, so to speak. And that several hundred thousand years before that, there was another similar species that birthed them. And so on down the line. And that we didn't come from monkeys, but rather we came from a species that monkeys also came from. That species doesn't exist anymore.

You also don't have to believe in a god just because you have skepticism about evolution. It's perfectly healthy to question things, even evolution. But it is important to learn about things like evolution so that you can actually know what they are saying before you throw the whole concept out. There is a lot of misunderstanding about what evolution is. Evolution works by way of lots of genetic abnormalities packing on top of each other over time.

When sex cells reproduce to create the next generation, sometimes there is a mistake, called a mutation, when creating the genetic code. This leads to the child having a different fur color, or eye color, or length or number of limbs etc. If this genetic mutation proves to be advantageous, (as in, if it helps the kid adapt to their environment so that they can continue to live and reproduce) or even if they just happen to make it to the point where they can reproduce anyway, they can pass those genes on. Over time, the genetic mutations that are advantageous spread throughout the population, and different genetic mutations that are now in the DNA of modern generations compile with each other to the point where they are no longer the same species as those who came well before them thousands to millions of years prior. I think the modern version of the TV show Cosmos does a great job at explaining this, which you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5lTZ0bfqqI


23.) "You must be a grumpy crotchety person who hates life and is miserable and had trauma in your childhood and that's why you're Atheist. Or you're trying to rebel."

That's not true. It's just a weird stereotype religious people made up to try to scare people out of questioning religion. I'm only an Atheist because there's no evidence for a god. That's it. If there was any actual evidence for a god, I would believe in said god. Everything religious folks have told me in regards to what they think is evidence has remained totally unconvincing to me. And I don't lack happiness and joy just because I'm Atheist. There are lots of amazing things in this world. Lots of things inspire me and give me joy, Atheism included.


24.) "You must not believe in anything."

That's also not true. I believe in love, compassion, humanity, friendship, nature and music to uplift your spirit, and many other things. I also have various political beliefs, as we all do. I also believe it's good to learn about things, like science, history, math etc. and I believe having hobbies is good for one's sense of identity. I just don't believe in a god.


25.) "You must not have truly been religious."

*I* personally do say that I was never religious despite not being raised as an Atheist because by the time I was old enough to understand the concepts of religion and gods, I realized I didn't think any of it was real and came out as an Atheist. But there are lots of Atheists who were genuinely religious, just as much as you. In fact most of them were. We're talking people who read the holy book, went to church regularly, prayed, worshipped the gods and prophets and believed the stories were real etc. In fact, lots of Atheists were once religious clergy. The Clergy Project is a wonderful organization that helps closeted Atheists transition out of being religious leaders. Lots of them feel like they have to keep going in that work even though they don't believe in a god because it's all they've ever known so they don't know how else to put food on the table for themselves and their families. Who knows, your place of worship might have leaders in it that are secretly Atheist.


26.) "You must worship satan!"

I don't. I don't believe in satan. I don't think there's any sort of antagonist to a god just like I don't think there is any sort of god. I don't think any of those characters are real.


27.) "Well you can't prove god doesn't exist."

Think of all the reasons you don't believe in any of the other thousands of gods people have believed in. What are your reasons for not believing in them? Those are my reasons for not believing in the god you happen to believe in. What would your response be if someone told you "Well you can't prove this god doesn't exist" in reference to those gods? There's your answer. I don't think it makes sense to believe in a god just because someone else thinks they can't be disproven. That would have to be applied to everything and I think most people would quickly see how bad of an argument it is if it were taken to its logical conclusion. I also don't believe they can't be disproven anyway. We can disprove characters and concepts with science, logic, and reason.


28.) "You just have to have faith/let god into your heart"

I believe the question of how the universe was created is far too important of a question to leave up to the concept of faith or blind acceptance. I think it's something that needs factual evidence. In fact, it's a scientific question, that requires the scientific method in order to answer. I think it's important to think critically, especially about things that make huge claims like that.


29.) "Atheism is a religion."

No, Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. It has no other qualities. It doesn't have anything else to it. It's not a grouping of rules. It's the lack of religion. It's the inverse of religion. Calling it a religion would be like calling not liking politics a political party. And if you really thought it was a religion, why are you more against it than all of the actual religions?


30.) "My religion must be true because I have a strong testimony."

So do I about Atheism, and so does everyone else in the various other religions about their religion. There are lots of people who are equally as convinced that their religion is true as you are that yours is true. You being sure of something doesn't mean it's true.


31.) "Without religion, how can you have a sense of community?"

You don't need religion for community. Volunteering is a great way to have a sense of community, because you're directly helping the community and often getting to connect with the community members you are helping, plus connecting with community members who are volunteering with you. Doing hobbies with like-minded individuals is another way to have community. There are lots of hobbies that can be done with people, such as outdoorsy things like hiking or canoeing, going to concerts or playing in a band, taking pottery or cooking classes etc. You can even form meetup groups specifically to make sure you are able to have a group to do these things with.

Having get-togethers with your neighbors is another way to have community, such as having block parties, BBQs, or even just making an effort to check in with each other and/or hang out every week. You can also live with a bunch of roommates, or join community housing projects. Some of them are set up as a big house with lots of people living there, and others are a bunch of houses built with community in mind where they all share land and community gardens and hang out in a common building in the center. There are also Atheist churches in certain areas, where community members get together to discuss different topics, enjoy refreshments, and connect with each other.



Tips: An easy way to understand if your religious argument is bad or not is to picture someone else who believes in a different god/religion asking you the same thing about their god/religion. If that argument wouldn't cause you to switch to believing in their god/religion, then you should consider throwing the argument out.

Another good thought  process is to ask yourself these questions:
*"If I had never heard of the concepts of religion or god until now, would I believe in them?"
*"If so, would I believe in the exact same god and religion that I currently believe in, or different ones?"
*"If my parents had raised me in a different religion, would I believe in that religion now, or would I reject that family religion in favor of the one I currently believe in?"
*"If no one had created my religion yet, would I create it, and exactly as it is now?"
*"If no one on earth was religious, would I be?"
These are questions meant to help you figure out if your religion is right for you, or if it's something you're going with because it's culturally easier to believe in it than something else or no religion at all.

Monday, January 23, 2023

Why Gun Abolishment is needed for the Consistent Life Ethic and for Leftist Values

There's a bit of hypocrisy with the CLE and Leftist spaces not talking that much about gun abolition despite support of guns fundamentally clashing with all of the other values. Though there is a rising number of people who are because they are fed up with the amount of mass shootings in the US. But here are some of the reasons gun abolition fits in well with leftistism and the consistent life ethic.

Guns are the ultimate way to value property over people. When people say they would shoot someone who was trying to take their gun, they are showing that an object means more to them than someone else's life. They are putting the right to life below the right to own property. They are an example of someone who shouldn't own a gun because they think it's ok to kill someone so easily.

Thousands of accidental shootings happen in the US each year from guns. This is something that will never be able to go away based on giving people mental health because they were unintentional. It also means that gun control won't work in this area because someone could pass all the checks and still accidentally shoot someone. This happens in many different ways too...adults accidentally shooting kids, kids accidentally shooting adults, guns malfunctioning, cats and dogs accidentally stepping on guns and setting them off etc. Those lives shouldn't be cast aside as necessary casualties because people don't want to give up their guns. 

The Gun Industrial Complex makes a lot of money off of the sales of guns, accessories, hunting licenses etc. There are many different companies who have their hands in the pot when it comes to guns. The NRA is the head of the gun lobby and makes sure that guns remain legal because it's a multi billion dollar industry, bringing in tens of billions of dollars per year.

There are a million different ways to defend yourself and the idea that we have no other choice but to use guns to defend ourselves is manipulative and comes from the gun industry saying that because they just want to make money, just like how the abortion industry manipulates people into thinking they need abortion in order to have freedom. It's a capitalistic effort. People defend themselves in many different ways and with many different things on a constant basis and yet the gun lobby makes sure that the concept of self-defense is tied to guns so that people feel like they *need* guns...like they have no other choice but to buy guns or else they'll die. As we have seen with other subjects, industries make people feel like they have no other choice but to do something because it's the easiest way to make sure they do it and help pump billions into the industry.

This has resulted in there being over a hundred million more guns than people in the US. "More guns" can never be the answer when there is an excess of guns already. We have too many guns to even use. Because of the capitalist effort of the Gun Industrial Complex convincing more and more people to support guns so that the industry turns a profit, even when it goes against their other values, guns now outnumber the number of people that can use them. We need to go after the manufacturers who are preying on the vulnerable to get them to support guns so that they can turn a profit with their blood money.

Due to the capitalistic efforts of the gun lobby and industry, gun culture here in the USA is extreme and that's why so many people support guns here. They wouldn't had they been raised somewhere else, which we have seen by the rest of the world being extremely confused and scared by our gun culture. People are afraid to travel here because of the huge amount of gun support. Gun culture is a systemically oppressive power structure. It's an extreme form of toxic masculinity. It's treated as normal and kids are raised to believe that buying a gun is no big deal. Parents teach their kids how to shoot at young ages so that they think that's just what people do.

Guns cause a lot of trauma for groups that are most affected by them, such as women and POC and LGBTQIA+ folks. Women and female bodied people are many times more likely to die in domestic violence situations with a gun in the house. POC are more likely to die by the police shooting them than white people are. The answer to the police or the government having guns is not to make it easier for them to have guns, it's to call for disarmament and abolishment.

But instead of calling to disarm the police, people call to support more guns. When we are told that we have to use that which oppresses us, we are being oppressed further. It's like telling us that to fight rape, we have to become rapists ourselves. That harms us as well. When you, your friends or family members, or your minority group has been affected by gun violence, it is traumatizing to see people support guns. I love orgs like Gays Against Guns because they help show that minority groups, which are disproportionately victims of gun violence, need to stand up against guns, not support them. The systems that oppress us want us to support guns so that we will continue to be oppressed. It allows easier access for our oppressors to get their hands on guns.

The second amendment needs to be repealed because it is an unjust law. Just because a law exist doesn't mean it should continue to exist. We know this because Roe v Wade is an unjust law that was repealed for being unjust. There's no good reason to own a gun. Hunting animals is wrong, and there are a million different ways to defend yourself outside of guns. There are even various other objects to use for target practice. They're not needed even if the Gun Industrial Complex tries to manipulate us into believing they are.

The idea that banning guns won't stop people from getting guns is no different from the idea that banning abortions won't stop people from getting abortions. We already know that that's a bad argument so we shouldn't be using it with other subjects. Though banning isn't the end all be all. We need a cultural shift. We need each individual being able to have the strength to pull themselves out of the clutches of the lies that the gun lobby has spread and taking a stand against it.

When people bring up cars, they don't seem to realize that if the sole purpose of cars was to hurt and kill then yes everyone would support them being banned. And if you can use any household object to kill someone then you can use those same household objects to defend yourself and you don't need a gun. And if people kill people, and the problem is people, then why would you want the problem to have guns? The arguments those who support guns use are hypocritical in terms of how they view other subjects and just bad arguments overall.

It's hypocritical to support guns while being against the death penalty or assisted suicide. If you think a murderer shouldn't be killed for being a murderer (and I agree) then it makes no sense to say that someone robbing you should be shot to death. If you think people shouldn't be killed in war (and I agree) then it makes no sense to say someone breaking into your home while they think you are away should be shot to death. Guns are also the ultimate way to provide suicide assistance because it's one of the more lethal ways to do it and a hell of a lot more people would kill themselves if they had access to guns. It makes no sense to say you are against euthanasia/assisted suicide, or say phrases like "suicide prevention, not suicide assistance" and then turn around and support putting guns into the hands of people who will later use them to kill themselves.

There's nothing about supporting guns that fits in with a culture of life, equity, and social justice. Guns are violence just like abortion, war, the death penalty, animal agriculture, and police brutality. The arguments used to support guns are very similar, if not exactly the same, to the arguments to support of any other form of violence. Guns inherently go against the right to life. For further reading, please check out The Socialist Case for Gun Control by Nivedita Majumdar and What Gun Control Advocates Can Learn From Abolitionists: Slave ownership was once as entrenched in American life as gun ownership. by Manisha Sinha and Rebecca Onion.

Friday, July 8, 2022

Could videos of abortions happening change people's outlook?

Since Roe has been overturned, I've had more moments of wondering how on earth so many people have successfully been manipulated into believing that state sanctioned child genocide and the mass exploitation of women and pregnant people is not that at all but rather "healthcare" "bodily autonomy" "reproductive rights" or "scraping cells out of our bodies." I'm aware of the history of how powerful the abortion industry is and how they have come up with these phrases to control the public, but still, it seems like more people would have realized they were being lied to by this point. 

I've often been in the middle of the "graphic images" debate because on the one hand, I don't want anyone who has miscarried or aborted to feel triggered, and a lot of people seem defensive and enraged when looking at them which makes it seem like they don't do much, but on the other hand, I think everyone should know what it is they are fighting for or against because otherwise you don't have informed consent. Abortion pictures often cause people to say "they're just dolls!" because they have been manipulated by the abortion industry into believing that, but what about videos of abortions happening? It's much harder to claim they are "just dolls" when you're staring at a doctor's eye view of a woman's cervix being opened a little bit with arms and legs being ripped out as the child bleeds to death and the rest of their body is pulled out. Even Live Action's videos of the former abortion Dr. Anthony Levatino describing how abortions happen has changed minds. You can watch the full thing here

There's an animal rights activist group called Anonymous for the Voiceless which has what they call "Cube of Truth"s where people stand back to back in a cube and hold tablets or ipads with slaughterhouse footage so that people can see the reality of what it is they are eating. Those in the cube who aren't holding devices are holding signs that say "truth". They have people next to the cube who do outreach and tell people what they are seeing or ask what they think about it to get into a discussion about the subject. I've often thought this might be a good idea for abortion too, because just like if slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian or vegan, if wombs had glass walls, everyone would be pro-life. People support abortion because they know not what it is. So I want to compile videos of abortions happening here. So far I've only found these three, but if you know of any more, please comment. And of course, viewer discretion is advised, so trigger warning for graphic video of abortions happening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdDfQeEI24o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53S5zO1RgTY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X8_WEFq15Q

Thursday, January 21, 2021

Why it's inconsistent for the Consistent Life Ethic to not support rights to assisted suicide/chosen euthanasia

There's an elephant in the room we need to talk about. Because the Consistent Life Ethic started off in Catholicism (though you can believe in it no matter your religious or political identity), it is said to include not allowing people to have a right to assisted suicide/euthanasia. But here's the thing: The right to live and the right to die are the same right. They cannot be separated. They are two sides of the same coin. It's all about letting others control their own lives. For example, no one is against killing because they think the victim should be forced to live, it's because they understand that that is not anyone else's body or life to take. The reason we have empathy for others who are hurt or killed is because someone else decided to force death on them. So I wanted to quickly go through some reasons as to why I see not allowing people to have these basic rights is unethical and inconsistent with life issues.

Consent is key. Whenever people who are against assisted suicide argue against it, they focus on the people who were forced into it, but what they don't seem to realize is that everyone who supports it agrees with them. Everyone on each side of this issue is in agreement that it is wrong to force, pressure, and coerce people into it, or not give them compassion, support, and other options. Just as everyone is against pedophilia except pedophiles, the only people who support forcing people into it are those who are doing the forcing. People should be given all the love, compassion, support, and knowledge of options possible. But at the end of the day, if nothing is working for them, they should still have their rights.

It's torture. Assisted suicide is talked about in regards to when terminally ill patients have pain that is so extreme that hospice/palliative care and pain meds won't help them. There is a naivety with thinking, "Well you can just give them pain medication and they'll feel better, so they shouldn't have a right to assisted suicide" when the main point is that it is not possible for relieving pain, whether that be with medication or anything else, to work in 100% of cases. There are many times in which the only way pain meds will stop someone's pain is if they are in high enough doses to be lethal. And the ironic thing is that there are some people who argue against these rights but their argument will end with "it is acceptable to give them pain medication that will treat the pain even if it kills them"...but...that's assisted suicide. So sometimes they do agree with us after all, without realizing it. But anyone who says that someone shouldn't be allowed to utilize assisted suicide, therefore being forced to have to suffer extreme pain and agony as they slowly die instead of getting to choose to die quickly and painlessly, is supporting torture.

I don't think anyone except for the most evil unethical people could ever watch someone go through that torture and still say that they should not have a right to quick and painless dying. So my view has always been that those who are against these rights haven't thought about it enough to put themselves in the shoes of others. And when they argue that people shouldn't be forced to help if they don't want to, we again agree. But there are more than enough people who understand that it is literal torture to not allow people to have this right that we wouldn't need those who don't want to contribute, to contribute. 

It's a form of slavery. By that I mean that it treats someone else's body and life as property to be forced to live as others see fit. It takes away someone's rights to their own self, and objectifies them. To get to make your own choices for your own life and how you will live it is the most basic of principles, but those who are against the right to consent to assisted suicide/euthanasia take a stand against this owning of your own life. It is so fundamentally against every other aspect of these people's beliefs that it's truly bizarre. This is something we would expect corrupt rogue military personnel who have caught prisoners of war and want to make them suffer to believe in, not those who believe in a consistent life ethic. To be stuck in a hospital bed in pain because everyone around you thinks that it is necessary for you to not get to choose how you will die can make someone feel hopeless and like a kidnap victim. People have cried out for mercy and their cries aren't listened to because society wants to act like somehow the pain meds they are already being given will help so they should just shut up and give up the will of their lives to others. But these are human beings, not objects.

It's inherently ableist. Those of us who have disabilities are often treated as second class citizens by those who are against these rights, by them advocating for our agency to be taken away. If your answer to the pain of those with disabilities is to say that we do not get to have the right to assisted suicide/euthanasia, all you're doing is dehumanizing us. It goes hand in hand with the ableist idea that anyone who has suicidal ideation must be "not of sound mind." Which is a really easy way to "other" people and not see us as full humans with our own thoughts and outlooks on life, as if everyone has to have the exact same view of their own life as them or else they are "defective" and shouldn't be listened to. 

The idea that we shouldn't allow *those who consent* to something to have the right to consent to it because *others* are forced/coerced/pressured into it makes no sense. It would mean that we have to illegalize sex because people are often forced into it through rape. Opponents of these equal rights often use the slippery slope fallacy as a way to justify taking away rights to those who *do* consent to it. But we can never take away rights from others just because some are being forced into something. The solution to that is to get to the root problem and fight the forcing of it, not fight the consenting to it. If all of the people who were against others consenting to it spent all the energy they use to make sure no one gets to have that right, fighting to make sure no one is pressured into it instead, it wouldn't be an issue.

Wednesday, July 24, 2019

Unconventional Pro-Life Groups

Non-Profit Organizations and social media groups for pro-life feminists:
*Feminists for Life:
http://feministsforlife.com/
http://www.facebook.com/FeministsForLife
http://www.youtube.com/user/FeministsForLife
https://twitter.com/Feminists4Life
https://www.instagram.com/feministsforlifeofamerica/
*Feminists for Nonviolent Choices:
http://www.ffnvc.org/
https://www.facebook.com/ffnvc
https://www.instagram.com/ffnvc/
https://twitter.com/ffnvc
*New Wave Feminists:
http://www.newwavefeminists.com/
https://www.facebook.com/NewWaveFeminists
https://www.instagram.com/newwavefeminists/
https://twitter.com/NWFproTX
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nwfaustin
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nwfla/
**Feministas De La Nueva Ola:
https://feministasdelanuevaola.wordpress.com/
https://www.facebook.com/feministasdelanuevaola
https://www.facebook.com/groups/206593393397417 (Grupo Feministas de la Nueva Ola)
https://www.instagram.com/fnoargentina/
https://twitter.com/FNOArgentina
https://www.facebook.com/FNOChile
https://www.facebook.com/groups/300769660615120 (Grupo FNO Chile)
https://www.facebook.com/fnoprovida
https://twitter.com/FeministasLa
*Feminists Choosing Life of New York:
https://www.fclny.org/
https://www.facebook.com/feministschoosinglife
https://www.instagram.com/feministschoosinglife/
*Women's Rights Without Frontiers:
https://www.womensrightswithoutfrontiers.org/
https://www.facebook.com/Womens-Rights-Without-Frontiers-129533553307/
*Pro-Life Feminist film:
https://www.lifefem.com
https://www.facebook.com/prolifefeministfilm
https://www.instagram.com/prolifefeministfilm/
*Pro-Life Women's Conference:
http://www.prolifewomen.com/
https://www.facebook.com/prolifewomenconference
https://www.instagram.com/prolifewomensconference/
https://twitter.com/prolifewomencon
*Susan B Anthony List:
http://www.sba-list.org/
https://www.facebook.com/SusanBAnthonyList
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCweaynfcfOijvB8icPqU3sQ
Others:
https://www.facebook.com/RiotGrrrlsForLifeProlife/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2493095100965127/ (Pro-Life Feminists)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/924652894276217 (FEMINISTAS PROVIDA)
https://www.facebook.com/prolifefeminists
https://www.facebook.com/feministasprovida2018/
https://www.facebook.com/stopgendercidenow
https://www.facebook.com/DefendGirls
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Womens-Initiative-for-Life/124457491046175?hc_location=stream
http://www.gargaro.com/fem.html
http://slv80.tripod.com/
http://www.seghea.com/pat/life/lifeindex.html
http://feminists4life.livejournal.com/

Non-Profit Organizations and social media groups for Pro-Life Liberals:
*Democrats for Life of America:
http://democratsforlife.org/
http://www.facebook.com/Dems4Life
https://www.instagram.com/democratsforlifeofamerica/
https://twitter.com/demsforlife
*Pro-Life Democratic Candidate PAC:
https://www.prolifedem.org/
https://twitter.com/ProLifeDem2020
*Other:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/351395925715477/ (Pro-Life Democrats of Washington State)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-County-Democrats-for-Life/627867567235914
https://www.facebook.com/groups/29950754274/?ref=br_rs (Democrats for Life of America, Mid-Atlantic)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Democratsf
http://www.youtube.com/user/democratsforlife
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Democrats-for-Life/79768789792
https://www.facebook.com/fdfla2
https://twitter.com/ProLifeDem
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeLiberals
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Refreshing-Liberal-Pro-Life-Stance/113136238708828?ref=stream
http://www.facebook.com/ProLifeSocialists
https://www.facebook.com/LaborforLife
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Life-Democrats-126112738018302
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pro-Life-Democrats-of-Tennessee/141690939183150
https://www.facebook.com/pages/California-ProLife-Democrats/98915319315
https://www.facebook.com/DemocratsForLifeofPA/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pro-Lifers-for-Peace-and-Justice/119035788132303
https://www.facebook.com/WholeLifeMovement/
https://www.facebook.com/LFACLE/ (Liberals for a Consistent Life Ethic)
https://www.facebook.com/LiberalsPro/ (Liberal and Pro-Life)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1439429939654064 (Pro-Life Progressives)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1632762973673714/ (Prolifers for Bernie)


Atheist/Agnostic/Secular Pro-Life Non-profit Organizations and social media groups:
*Secular Pro-Life:
http://secularprolife.org/
http://www.facebook.com/secularprolife
https://www.facebook.com/groups/54623206855/
https://www.instagram.com/secularprolife/
http://blog.secularprolife.org/
https://twitter.com/secularprolife
http://www.youtube.com/user/secularprolife
https://www.facebook.com/groups/69532637639/
*Pro-Life Humanists:
http://www.prolifehumanists.org/
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeHumanists
https://www.instagram.com/prolifehumanists/
http://www.prolifehumanists.org/blog/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ProLifeHumanists
https://twitter.com/prolifehumanist
*Other:
http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2218614613/ (Atheist and Agnostic Pro Life League)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/aaagainstabortion/ (Agnostics & Atheists Against Abortion)
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeAtheists/
https://www.facebook.com/AtheistsAgainstAbortion
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2023375607897847/ (Humanist Women Against Abortion)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1237927826251050/ (AAPLL Atheists and Agnostics Only)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/141291502724771/ (The Best Secular Pro-Life and Anti-Religious Images)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/475230029353010/ (Secular Pro-Life League)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/220132012136978 (Atheist and Agnostic Pro Life League: Reincarnated)
https://www.facebook.com/TheProLifeAtheist
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ProlifeWithoutReligion
https://www.facebook.com/prolifesecularistsaustralia
https://www.facebook.com/IrishAtheistsAndAgnosticsForLife
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1198368933539580 (Secular Pro-Life Ireland)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pro-Life-Athiests-and-Agnostics/265803963448005
https://www.facebook.com/AtheistAgnosticProLifers
https://www.facebook.com/ProlifeItsWhatsRightPeriod
https://www.facebook.com/AllFaithsAbolitionists/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/secularabortiondebate/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/170390733516176/ (Never Alone: Secular Post-Abortive Healing)

For LGBTQIA+ Pro-Lifers:
*PLAGAL - The Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians:
http://plagal.org/
https://www.facebook.com/PLAGAL-The-Prolife-Alliance-of-Gays-and-Lesbians-99136188374/
https://www.instagram.com/plagalplus/
https://twitter.com/PLAGALofficial
*Other:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/144532882359620 (LGBT Pro-Lifers)
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Life-LGBTQ-103917081730400/


For Vegan and Vegetarian Pro-Lifers:
https://www.facebook.com/VeganandProLife/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VegansAgainstAbortion/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/603011886411541/ (Pro Life Vegans)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/438370923037775/ (Vegan Pro-Life Organisation)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/209158483602489/ (Vegans for Pro-Life)
https://www.facebook.com/vegansagainstabortion/
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Life-VegansVegetarians-428364590557466
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeVegetarians
http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=prolife_vegans
http://www.gargaro.com/vegan.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/environmentalistsforlife/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1344307165643493/ (Vegan, Pro-Life, Christians)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VegansVegetarians-Who-are-Pro-Life-and-Believe-in-God/162794273734165


For POC pro-lifers:
https://www.facebook.com/problackprolife1619/
https://www.facebook.com/blackprolifemovement
https://www.facebook.com/National-Black-Pro-Life-Union-166244356774771
https://www.facebook.com/abidewomenshealth/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2025950520857605 (Black, Woman & ProLife)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NBPLC (National Black ProLife Coalition)
http://www.toomanyaborted.com/
http://blackgenocide.org/home.html
https://www.latinos4life.org/
https://www.facebook.com/Latinos4Life


Other pro-life pages that lean toward liberal/pro-woman/secular ideals:
*Rehumanize International:
https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/
https://www.facebook.com/RehumanizeIntl
https://www.instagram.com/rehumanizeintl/
https://twitter.com/RehumanizeIntl
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLwEOT_fZznDi402wdzpH7w
https://www.facebook.com/RehumanizePgh
https://www.facebook.com/groups/rehumanizepgh
https://www.facebook.com/RehumanizeNewEngland
https://www.facebook.com/groups/RehumanizeStreetTeam/
*Consistent Life:
http://www.consistent-life.org/
https://www.facebook.com/ConsistentLife
http://www.youtube.com/user/ConsistentLife
https://twitter.com/consistentlife
*All Our Lives:
http://www.allourlives.org/
https://www.facebook.com/all.our.lives
https://twitter.com/all_our_lives
https://allourlives-official.tumblr.com/
*Pro-Life San Francisco:
https://www.prolifesf.com/
https://www.facebook.com/prolifesf/
https://www.instagram.com/prolifesf/
https://twitter.com/prolifesf
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO7UKAytH8dGWnBM8X0vRzg
*Other:
https://www.facebook.com/WeAreProlifeWomen/
https://www.facebook.com/Unconventional-Pro-Life-Memes-1394257494059296/
http://consistent-life.livejournal.com/
https://www.consistentlifenetwork.org/member-orgs
https://www.facebook.com/groups/consistenthumanlife (Supporters For A Consistent Pro-Life Ethic)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/381291125296047/ (Anti-Abortionists for Greater Pre and Post Birth Funding)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292421877538265/ (Pro-lifers in favor of Safer Sex, Birth Control, and Sex-Ed)
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifers4SaferSex
https://www.facebook.com/PeacefullyProLife
https://www.facebook.com/holisticprolife/
https://www.facebook.com/bareandprolife/ (Pro-Life Nudist)
https://www.facebook.com/doulasforlife/
https://www.facebook.com/antiwarprolife
https://www.facebook.com/groups/133662487451283/ (Pro Lifers For gun control)
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Vaccine-Pro-Life-835274306676420/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/335429880456505/ (Pro Life Pro Vaccine)
https://www.facebook.com/ProlifeIntactivists
https://www.facebook.com/groups/116943918996842 (Pro-Life Intact)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pro-Life-is-for-ALL-religions/131919896967408
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Rights-and-Scientific-Honesty-Initiative-University-of-Virginia/131787153562919?ref=stream
https://www.facebook.com/groups/386286044787083/ (Human Rights for Born and Unborn)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1858491831106044/ (Intersectional Pro-Life Alliance)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2255820753/ (Unconventional Prolifers)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/144958959510556 (Progressives, Former ProChoice-ers, and Atheists ProLife Alliance)
https://www.facebook.com/Abort-Ableism-369229523895434/
https://www.facebook.com/makeableismwrongagain/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/419391611771928/ (Handicapped Humans Against Abortion)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/359712157389495/ (Deaf and Hard of Hearing Pro-Lifers)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlternativeLifers/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Secular-ProLife-Socialist/432028110164660
http://lifepeace.tripod.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alternatively-Pro-Life/160428947434154
https://www.facebook.com/alternativeprolifers/
http://rockforlife.org/
https://twitter.com/rockforlife
https://www.facebook.com/groups/313427672041132 (Pro-Life Rockers.)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/157492728277818/ (Punk Rock & Pro Life)
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Life-Goths-and-Rockers-1288574284490564/
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Lifers-With-Tattoos-Piercings-Body-Mods-and-Vibrant-Hair-414294549170195/
https://www.facebook.com/signsforlife7/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/383903911621898 (Pro-Life Artists Unite)
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeArtistsUnite/
https://www.facebook.com/TheProLifeArtistPage/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/589331834752317 (Pro Life Entertainers & Artists)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/313361330470/ (Pro-Life Pagans, Wiccan's, Witches, and Vodouisants)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/468617136880086 (Pro-life Satanists, Left-Hand Path Followers, and their allies)
https://www.facebook.com/BuddhistsProtect
https://www.facebook.com/Buddhistsforlifecenter/
https://www.facebook.com/Pro-Life-Swag-555048744929948/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/656900031171703 (Pro-life Millennials)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204927003154333 (sounds like eugenics but ok)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2143706355709374/ (oh, we're killing poor people now? cool, cool...)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/277781053145336/ (Pro-Life Mermaids)
http://www.gargaro.com/abortion/alt.html
https://www.facebook.com/NonAggressionPrincipleAgainstAbortion
http://www.l4l.org/
https://www.facebook.com/ProLifeLibertarians

Wednesday, March 7, 2018

If the unborn is a human...

If the unborn is not a human, no justification for abortion is necessary (all abortions would be no different than using a condom and there would be no reason for abortion to be a "tough, gut-wrenching choice that no one wants to make" as a lot of pro-choicers describe it).

However, if the unborn is a human, no justification for abortion is adequate (not the fact that we're poor, not the fact that we're single, not the fact that we have career goals, not the fact that we don't want to be mothers etc. Being labelled as "unwanted" by someone else could never possibly be a reason to kill someone, lest we want to create the world's most totalitarian society.)

Science does indeed tell us that the unborn are distinct living human beings and not just clumps of human cells.

Why a lot of pro-choicers really don't care about women

So I hear myself saying "These people really don't care about women at all!" more and more as I hear pro-choice arguments, I may have even mentioned that before in this blog, so I figured I'd write down why the pro-choice side seems like the "anti-woman" side, and like they really just hate women. Not all pro-choicers are this way (heck some of the ones who are may not even realize this is anti-woman as they could be blinded by the politics of it all and just say/do things because they are so used to hearing it. And perhaps when not dealing with abortion they are pro-woman in certain ways, but the fact is that there are some things they do/say that couldn't be called pro-woman and do seem like a hatred of them), but it's getting harder and harder to find the good ones.

*Only think the choices are get an abortion or be forced to raise a child you don't want with no means

*Act like women who have unplanned and unwanted children will abuse them once they are born (so many people living today weren't wanted/planned but were NOT abused by their parents, because parents don't have an automatic switch to where they just hurt their children if they didn't decide to have them)

*Say that no woman is happy to have an abortion yet really try to make sure a horrible choice no woman wants, sticks around, even at the expense of helping other choices.

*Fail to mention that most abortions aren't by women who don't want their babies, but rather women who think that they can't do it because of lack of choices or not knowing of their choices. They frame abortion as if you can't force a woman to bear an unwanted child, and all children should be wanted, when most abortions occur with the women wanting their children even if it was unexpected but not knowing how to be the mothers they want to be.

*Force women to choose between a career or school and a child, and then call that liberation.

*It says that women can't do it all. They can't be career women or school women and mothers. They apparently aren't strong enough to do so and shouldn't be trusted to do so.

*Doesn't trust women to make their own decisions by refusing to give them proper info and facts of other choices, the unborn, and abortion, ensuring that they aren't fully informed before making such a big decisions and thus ensuring they will most likely regret it as they made a decisions they weren't informed on. Not only that but it makes women illiterate with the info surrounding all of this. They hide the humanity of the unborn and are against women seeing ultrasounds before the abortion because they know that if they have that knowledge, they won't go through with it.

*They don't let people actually offer women other options. When sidewalk counseling, even if they are being nice and respectful and honestly offering women help, pro-choicers will try and drown them out and walk the woman to the abortion clinics while telling them not to listen to the people trying to offer them help. Here is a video of a pro-choice activist who posed as a woman seeking an abortion and having someone escort her into an abortion center, who shared the video on youtube with her and her boyfriend's commentary, saying she was "terrified" by the pro-life sidewalk counselors, who allegedly "bullied and intimidated" her, and they omitted the commentary the pro-life sidewalk counselor gave so you don't actually hear it but rather are left to assume what they say is true . Want to know what the pro-lifer actually said?...

"Good morning, my name's Kelly. I'd like to talk to you this morning before you go in to have an abortion. On the corner, just past the abortion clinic, on the corner is A Woman's Choice, and you can get a free ultrasound. We want to help you, so whatever brings you in here for this abortion today, we want to help you. We have, um, adoption counseling, financial counseling, free ultrasounds... whatever you need. We have free maternity homes, anything you need. Ma'am, what you have in you is a son or a daughter. It was decided at conception whether you were carrying a son or a daughter. The baby inside you [unintelligible] is still valuable and precious. And we're just [unintelligible]."

*In a feminist society where they successfully made abortion legal and have kept it legal and they have gotten so many other things for women, they haven't done a lot to secure more rights/options for pregnant women and mothers and children. They could have easily done this had they actually cared about women. It tends to be the pro-lifers who do this.

*Forces women to wage war on their very own children, and makes a conflict between women and unborn children.

*By saying women only choose abortion when they feel like they have no other choice and no woman goes into an abortion clinic happy to abort because it isn't about wanting to kill but rather feeling like they have no other options, and then say that that choice should be an option, you are forcing them to choose that, and showing that YOU are the ones who think women can't choose for themselves. You are giving them no choice.

*Make women think they need abortion in order to be equal, even though they also say that it is the woman's choice and men can't have a say, so men already don't have abortion rights

*Refuse getting abortion clinics up to standard, like this article states, if abortion clinics actually cared about women, they would already have these standards in place without the government having to get involved. The abortion industry doesn't care about women, they care about money.

*Refuse to acknowledge all the women who have died in "safe and legal" abortions

* Refuse to acknowledge all the women who regret their abortions and have suicidal thoughts and tendencies and PTSD, and that it is bad for the women as well as the unborn

*Refuse to tell their pro-choice advocates about the facts, thus they feel tricked when they realize it and tend to turn pro-life.

*Refuse to let women choose to be pro-life. They silence pro-life women constantly.

*Refuse to let female fetuses have the choice of life

*Refuse to be against or stand up to sex-selective abortion killing women in the womb

*The whole pro-choice thing makes women put their children in the same spot women were in previously. This is not only horrible for their own children, it degrades women. The first wave of feminism fought against women being seen as "not persons" and the second wave turned women into the people claiming that their children were "not persons." It's the ultimate irony.

*Even beyond all of that, we are hearing more stories of guys coercing or forcing women to miscarry or have abortions, even without them knowing it by slipping them the abortion pill, guys telling people how to convince a girl to get an abortion, or with the "bro-choice" crowd, saying a good reason to be for abortion is so that you can have more casual sex. Sometimes bad guys use "pro-choice" to their advantage to get women to have the abortions they want.